It was a terrifying five or six minutes. Not in the same way it was terrifying when the jetliner suddenly dropped about five hundred feet and a single oxygen mask deployed from the overhead, but terrifying enough.

And it happened while I was sitting in my own house watching the PBS News Hour.

As a part of the run-up to the Iowa Caucuses, the News Hour had a correspondent interviewing an Iowa faith leader. At least, that was how he termed himself. And he said his group had a lot of followers.

Through the first of the interview, it was pretty much the usual conservative spin. He liked DeSantis because he put God above government. I really don’t think that’s an appropriate framing of the question, but I’ve heard it from the right so long that I don’t flinch anymore. Then the interviewer asked whether, if Trump turned out to be the Republican nominee, could he support Trump, and the interview started to get interesting.

First, I should note that the “faith leader” was a well-spoken, grandfatherly type who wouldn’t raise any eyebrows at any place I would go. He didn’t scream. He appeared thoughtful. He was courteous to the interviewer even when she politely and lightly pushed him.

But his words made all of that impression go away.

He said that if Trump was the Republican nominee, running against Biden, he would certainly support Trump. Then the interviewer asked if he considered Trump a good role model for his grandchildren. He said, “No, but God has always used flawed men to do His work.” He cited Abraham and David as examples. (I’m still puzzling over his using Abraham as an example. Abraham show obedience, devotion, and faith all of his life, even to the point he was about to sacrifice his son because God told him to. I need to discuss that with the “faith leader.”)

He pointed out that Biden was destroying the country, and Trump stood for the values that evangelicals revered, noting abortion, same-sex marriage, and who gets to say whether children can transition or not and what they can read. He also complained about the border. He did not mention that Trump has been adjudged fraudulent in his school, business, and charitable enterprises, and is now under four indictments for 91 criminal counts. Nor did he mention that Trump had to say he would not be a dictator to clarify the comments where he said he would be a dictator on day one.

Then he said something that made me want to scream at the television set: We have the freedom to practice our faith inside the church, but we don’t have the freedom to practice our faith outside the walls of the church.

I found that to be about fifty shades of wrong. For most of my 85 years, I have been privileged to practice my faith as I know it inside or outside the church or anywhere else. The basic tenet is this: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another" There was nothing in the words of the “faith leader” that even hinted of love. When you pierce the self-righteous wall of jargon, you find that he means he’s having some difficulty getting everybody else to act according to his rules. And for that, as a person who professes to be Christian, I am grateful.

If he doesn’t approve of abortion, let him (and his followers) do whatever they can to eliminate the need for it. Improve sex education. Make contraceptives available. Make adoption easier, and more affordable. However, putting the lives of 10-year-old girls and women with non-viable pregnancies at stake isn’t good Christian witness.

He can recognize that, just as no one can force him to be LGBTQ+, he should be able to deny rights to any who are.

He can also recognize that complex issues, such as changing from male to female or vice-versa, don’t respond to simplistic, bumper-sticker solutions.

And he can recognize that if he doesn’t want his child to read a book—say, The Grapes of Wrath—he has absolutely no right to remove it from the curriculum for everyone else.  (The Catholic Index of Forbidden Books was in effect for more than 350 years, and even though some Catholics used it as a reading list, the books—including Les Misérables, all of the French Existentialists, and Madame Bovary—did not cause the fall of civilization. In fact, all three of the above were required reading when I was in college.)

I’m sure that there were other issues that, due to the lack of air time, the “faith leader” would have liked to mention, but I’m also sure that my solution would serve him for those mentioned and not mentioned.

As an evangelical, I suggest that we attempt to model Christ’s command to love and be kind, that we teach Christ through our actions and moral suasion, and if we’re not a part of the group affected (e.g., pregnant women, gay and lesbian people, people who feel that they are misgendered, among others) we should immediately quit judging and attempting to frustrate their choice and go back to Christ’s commandment.

As I have written before and would remind the “faith leader,” Christ went to the streets and then to the cross and not to Congress to try to make laws.

By the way, I have put the words “faith leader” in quotes not because I am judging his faith, but because, based on what he said in the interview, he does not lead my faith. His is a world I wish we didn’t live in.